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Warren Zeiser is a man who believes in authenticity. And he certainly walked the talk in this episode of the Spilled Salt podcast, sharing the spills that made him a better leader and, ultimately, a better leadership coach.

Hard business lessons lead to Warren’s leadership evolution.

Warren assumed his first leadership role at 23, but in starting young and green, had a lot of learning to do. He candidly acknowledged his early inadequacies, emphasizing genuine care as a leader’s foundation and recalling humbling moments that shaped his leadership style. His transition from impulsive decisions to thoughtful leadership didn’t happen overnight.

Warren and Maureen also discussed the traits of poor leadership, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, courage, and selflessness. Leaders must navigate fear, Warren said, make courageous decisions, and prioritize their team over personal ego. He stressed the detrimental impact of impulsivity and selfishness on team effectiveness.

After years in diverse leadership roles, Warren began his seven-year venture with WeRise Consulting. Fast forward to present day and Warren is coaching entrepreneurs to become exceptional leaders. He channels his passion for leadership, guiding companies through growth and transformation. WeRise’s approach focuses on both individual leadership coaching and comprehensive business consulting.

Warren’s approach to guiding leaders begins with navigating resistance to change. 

Reflecting on his experiences, Warren says the most common challenge is resistance to change.  The key is instilling confidence in clients, he says, assuring them that making challenging decisions is part of the growth process. He encourages leaders to think of it as overcoming short-term pain for long-term success.

While it’s challenging to pinpoint a favorite moment in his practice, Warren derives the most satisfaction in witnessing client transformations. From Death Wish Coffee’s national success to Brooks Barbecue’s turnaround, Warren believes each success story reinforces the significance of effective leadership and strategic decision-making.

WePeak: Elevating Leadership Amidst Nature

WePeak, a unique program initiated by Warren, merges leadership discussions with outdoor activities. Warren says that by taking entrepreneurs and leaders outdoors, he creates a neutral environment conducive to open thinking and stress relief. The combination of strenuous activity, like hiking, and camaraderie on the trail breaks down the barriers to impactful conversations.

Warren leaves listeners with a powerful message: Embrace change, tackle short-term pain, and lead with courage. The journey to exceptional leadership, he says, involves a blend of experience, resilience, and a commitment to continuous improvement.

Transcript

This transcript has been edited from its original form to support readability.

Maureen Ballatori: I’m Maureen Ballatori and this is Spilled Salt. It’s a podcast on the thrills and spills from the food, beverage, and agriculture industries. And today, I think we have more spills than we have thrills, perhaps for the first time. 

My guest is Warren Zeiser, and he is the owner and CEO of WeRise Consulting. Warren has worked with a lot of food and beverage industry companies over the years, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to have him on the podcast, but he talks today about some of his experience in totally turning companies around; 30 days from closing their doors to being able to save a company and turn it around into one that is highly successful. We also talk about great leadership, as well as bad leadership. 

That’s the kind of spills that Warren talks about a little, some of the things that he sees in poor leaders that are indicative of opportunities for improvement, let’s call it. Enjoy the conversation.

Hey, Warren! I’m very excited to have you tell your story today. How are you?

Warren Zeiser: I’m doing great, cold, January day, good to be indoors on the phone with you as opposed to outside shoveling, so.

Maureen: I’ve been working really hard to get my steps in every day. And so we’re at the part of the year now where I’m checking the temperature to determine what time of day I’m going to take my walk. Because I like to go outside. I like to get fresh air and kill two birds with one stone. So I’ll be going this afternoon because it was 14 this morning. 

In today’s conversation, I’m going to ask you a bit about your work experience. And so that’s the place where I typically like to start. You’ve spent 17 years self-employed for WeRise Consulting, but you’ve had some other in-house roles along the way as well. Can you start us off by talking a little bit about your work experience?

Warren: I started my first company when I was 23 years old and I became a partner in a business. I was a sales guy for the company. Did that for a couple of years. And of course, if you’re a good salesperson, that immediately means you’re a great leader. So they promoted me to manager and then to partner. 

I had no idea what I was doing, but I figured it out and I ran that company for about 20-22 years, we built it to $70 million in revenue, 30 locations across the country. It was a great business. I saw an opportunity to make an exit, I left. 

I then went to work in the corporate world for five years. I liked it, and learned a lot. It didn’t fuel my entrepreneurial fire, I guess. 

And then I took over a company called Mastroianni Bakery, which is in upstate New York. It’s kind of like the most beloved Italian bread bakery. It’s in every grocery store up and down the Eastern seaboard. So I did that and did a pretty cool deal there where we saved the company and then sold it. 

And then after that, I started WeRise and I actually have been for about seven years. I had another consulting business on the side. But WeRise has really been seven years. And that’s just been working with some of the coolest companies on the planet and it’s been a good seven years.

Maureen: That’s awesome. I look forward to asking you more about that, but before we jump over to that side of things, I want to emphasize something about your work experience that you just mentioned. You’re using the words like took over and you ran the company. You were young, you were very young at the time, right? So were you truly CEO in those roles? What was that like?

Warren:  Yes, 23, and the original founders of this food company said, hey, we think you’re doing great things. We want to make you a partner. You can go anywhere in the country. And I flew around the country. I mean, every corner of the country and I chose Albany, you know, not Miami, not Los Angeles.

Maureen: Hey, there’s a lot to love about upstate New York.

Warren: I did choose it because I’m from Long Island and I wanted to be close to home. I didn’t want to live my life away from my family. So that’s what I did. 

I took over and they just literally airdropped me into Albany and said bye. And then you got to figure it out. 

And I was a horrible, horrible entrepreneur, terrible business owner, terrible leader. And I figured it out over time. I had some really humbling moments learning what a great company looks like, what a great team looks like, and most importantly, what being a great leader looks like. So, yeah, I figured that out at a very, very young age. 

It took me a long time, and I wish I had somebody to guide me and tell me the stupid stuff I was doing, but I’ll take the lessons.

Maureen: That is the work that you’re doing now is to help give that guidance to current companies, right, with WeRise. So talk about that, the work you’ve been doing for the last seven years.

Warren: In my past, especially through my food company, what my job was to help the company grow. So we were hiring salespeople and training them. It was very important for me to hire managers, leaders who could run each individual location. 

So I taught leadership everyday and I loved it. I happened to have a knack for it. And for years, honestly Maureen, 15 years, I’ve been saying someday, someday I’m going to do this thing. 

And then I sold off Mastroianni Bakery after I left my food company and I sold off Mastroianni. I’m sitting on my front porch on a July afternoon- and for the first time since I was 10, I didn’t have a job to go to the next day. 

So I said, this is it. This is the shot. And I just have a passion for great leadership. I geek out about leadership every day. You want to talk about leadership, I’ll move in and we’ll talk about it every day all day. I love it. 

As much as I love great leadership and seeing people grow as leaders, I absolutely loathe bad leadership. It drives me insane when I see it. I see it and the thing is you get plagued with it everywhere you go in life, whether you walk into a restaurant or supermarket or a dry cleaner, you’re seeing good and bad leadership. 

I just like the idea of taking a good leader and making them great and all the fun things that come with it.

Maureen: You mentioned you loathe bad leadership. I think when you work on it, right, I’ve spent a lot of time over the last handful of years really, my goal was to become a remarkable leader. I’m using that word very intentionally. I wanted to be a leader that was remarkable, that was remarked on. I wanted people to continue to grow up and in their career and say, I had that one boss that changed my life. I wanted to be remarked on. 

I can also spot bad leadership because of the work that I’ve done there. What are some of the things that you see when you say bad leadership? What are some of the examples that you typically see?

Warren: I think the first one is people who are not genuine. I think that’s where it begins and ends. You have got to be genuine. I hate to say it, but if you’re not a good human being who actually gives a damn about these people who, yes, they work for you, but they’re carrying out your vision, your company, your dream, you better give a damn about them.

And I think the thing that saved me when I was younger, from all the dumb decisions that I made as a leader, but I truly cared. Even then I really cared about them. 

I think people who are just not genuine and don’t care, I don’t know how you fix that. You’ve got to go in a yurt somewhere and smoke yourself out. Figure out what you stand for as a leader because you have to care. 

I think another one is fear. We are, especially today, leaders are so afraid to make courageous decisions. And, you know, again, I say this all the time, right? There is no courage in the absence of fear. 

It’s that fear that you push through and you make the right decision and it’s courageous. But those decisions are oftentimes A, risky, and or B, unpopular. 

I see leaders today just hiding behind that fear. And not willing to make the unpopular decision. The reality is you’re going to sometimes piss people off when you’re a leader. You’re going to be misunderstood. You’re going to have people that don’t like the things that you’ve said or done. It’s going to happen. You have to push past that stuff.

Maureen: There’s a book by Elizabeth Gilbert called Big Magic that I read years ago and I’m paraphrasing, but the gist is fear can come along for the ride, but it can’t drive the car. 

That’s what kind of sticks for me when I have to let a colleague go because it’s not a right fit and we can’t come back from it, right? That’s a tough one that is kind of an example of what you’re talking about. Where you have to make the hard choice for the betterment of the team and for the company and for where everyone’s going and not everyone’s a fit, but that fear can come along, can’t drive the car.

Warren: I look back on the past few years and I do have this knack for finding these 35-to-50-year-old entrepreneurs. They’re right in that middle ground and there is this absolute fear of making a decision that’s going to negatively impact a person and my job is to coach them through that. 

I tell them, ‘I understand you’re loyal to that one person, but are you telling me that you’re going to let your loyalty to that one person affect the loyalty and responsibility you have to the other 80 on your team? No way. They’re not the right fit. It’s not good for you. It’s not good for them. It’s not good for the rest of the team. You got to make that call.’

I’m going through it right now with three clients. We’re guiding them through. And some of them, it’s going to take two weeks to figure it out. Some of them have been, I’ve been working on them for two months to get them to figure it out. But eventually they make the right decision. 

And I always predict that in six months, we’re going to have a conversation about this day. And you are going to say, I can’t believe I waited so long. This was the best thing I ever did. It happens every time, you know? So yeah, so I think fear is a big one.

Maureen: I think that’s a great point.

Warren: And if you don’t mind, I could say two more quick things about bad leadership. A, people who are impulsive, who don’t think… Imagine what’s possible if you think before you act. Leaders need to think through their decision and then move. Make a decision. 

And then lastly, I think, is selfishness. People who put themselves first. And it’s all about ego and them, and that’s just terrible leadership.

Maureen: Couldn’t agree more. 

So on the flip side of that, one of the things I had down that I wanted to ask you about was like common themes that you see. And I was especially interested to bring you on the podcast, Warren, because you have deep experience in the food and beverage industry. 

You’ve worked with a lot of food and beverage clients over the years in a lot of different ways too. So what are some of the themes that you see? And if there’s anything in particular that’s specific to food and beverage, great. But if it’s just generalized, that’s okay too. What are some of the biggest things like when we think about positive outcomes that your clients experience after working with you, what are some of those?

Warren: I definitely think that one of the big ones is getting it’s said to me all the time is getting them out of the weeds. From my very first client that was the comment that the owner of the company made. He said I spent five years running this company from the weeds. He said and in six months you took me out of the weeds.

It’s just not true. You’re a human being who’s going through some things for the first time and you don’t always know what the right answer is. Having somebody who has been there, number one, and been there a lot. Be, number two, I approach it as if I’m like your business partner. I don’t have an agenda. It’s not my agenda. I’m not furthering my agenda or doing what’s best for me. I say this all the time.

I try to be the very best I can at my job. So much so that I’m going to get myself fired. And that’s what happens. I get myself fired all the time because you’ve got to get them to the point where they don’t need you anymore. 

My average engagements are two years, two and a half years. People stay with me a long time because we’re constantly [working on improving].

Somebody just called me two minutes before we got on this meeting and I said, dude, I can’t talk. You got two minutes, tell me what it is. He just needed to talk to somebody real quick, you know? And I think I give them that ear and then I always let them know it’s okay. You’re going to make the right decision even if you make the wrong one first, you know? 

I think we are exposed and vulnerable sometimes as leaders and I’m the guy that’s going to be there. I’ll be a little bit of a safety net, but I’m also going to tell you, it’s okay. If you mess it up, it’s okay. You’re not perfect.

Maureen: It’s kind of like a gut check, right? That they have you to call as a gut check to say like, I’m not crazy, right? Like, this is kind of, this feels weird and it is weird, right? You can kind of be their mirror or a sounding board for them to bounce back, but it’s also helping them build their own confidence when you speak of. That every time they do that gut check, it kind of comes back like, yeah, I was right.

Warren: I love, I absolutely love that. And it’s true. I always say it. I do believe I have creative ideas and I have a very certain way of thinking that it’s always about seeing solutions, seeing opportunities and solving. That’s it. That’s all that’s going through my head. 

But I believe that most people have the answers. They have no idea how to bring it to the front, how to act on it courageously, and then how to build the strategy. Like they know what to do. They don’t know how to do it.

 So my job is amazing. I go into a room and I will talk about things that people say, oh, we’ve been talking about that for years. Okay, well, what happened? Well, we never did it, but we’ve been talking about it.

Like it’s a really good idea. I thought of it, you thought of it long before I did. So let’s get to work on it. And so that’s what I bring.

Maureen: It’s interesting to make that parallel, too, when you put it that way, because we at Agency 29 provide a similar service in the strategy and marketing that we provide for clients. That it’s all about helping them understand and see what the potential is, and then set the plan in place and just do it. So I think that that’s something. 

It’s interesting to hear you say that the strategy in the execution or implementation is one of the frequent themes that you’re helping them solve. Because it’s true in many aspects of someone’s work. And I’m sure that, especially for food and beverage brands, that you could apply that same concept to manufacturing, to launching a new product, right? To various aspects of the business too. They’ve been thinking about a new SKU for a while and your job is to kind of help push them to, and then what, right?

Warren: It’s funny. Somebody asked me a while back, hey, are you concerned now with AI and chatGPT that you’re going to become obsolete? I was crying, laughing. 

I think you can get answers anywhere, right? You can get an answer. I can read a book. I can Google it. I can use AI. I can ask a friend, right? Whatever. 

Getting the answer is not the hardest part. It’s figuring out how the hell do I coordinate all the pieces. I’m going to do this thing. 

In your world, it’s marketing and if I could Google how to grow your business, what’s the best business practices for a CPG brand and when it comes to marketing, okay, there’ll be a whole bunch of opinions and answers. Show me the person who knows how to actually do it. And that’s where somebody like you comes in or me. We have the map.

I always say that if you were hiking and you come to the fork in the road, I’m not going to go figure it out on my own. I’m going to ask the lady with the map. That’s you. 

Maureen:I think that I’m going to connect two dots. You mentioned that like you’re helping them kind of coordinate all of the pieces. I want to go back to some of your very early experiences that you were talking about where you made some very major turnarounds.

in the companies that you were working on early in your career where you were in the leadership role. And I’m sure that that’s also true for the leaders you’re consulting and guiding, you know, to do their own turnarounds. But what are your thoughts on that parallel, about connecting dots and how that relates to major turnarounds for some of the companies that you’ve worked at?

Warren: I remember the first turnaround that I had to do was actually in the food company that I worked at Horizon. There was a location that was struggling. It was run by the company. It was doing poorly. They were going to close and they called me and asked me if I had an interest in taking it over. 

It was two hours away. I really wasn’t high in my thought process, but I’m like, all right, I’ll do it. And we went down there and in a year we took it from last in the company to second in the company out of 30 locations. 

It really was getting the team rallied. And if you don’t want to be a part of this thing, then out you go. I’m going to give you no reason to doubt me. I’m going to, I’ll put you first, but we have got to get this thing fixed. And either you’re going to be part of the solution or you’re not. 

But one thing I know failure will not happen. It’s not happening. And, and we turned that thing around and we had a really good group of people. 

And interestingly, the guy who was running the company at that location at the time, he stayed. Then he had to then answer to me. And he was like 15 years older than me, which was most of my life that I had to deal with. So I was used to it. But he was a really good guy that the company left high and dry. And he said, “Z, I love your energy. I see what you’ve done with the other locations. My ego will not get in the way. You take over, you tell me what needs to be done and what you need from me and I’m along for the ride.” And that dude was, he was a savage, absolute savage. And I don’t think it would have happened as quickly without him. 

Maureen: That’s on the importance of teams, right? Is that you can come in with the vision, you can be the leader with the vision, you can’t execute alone. You need people like that, that are ready to go, telling you I’m here, I’m ready to go, let’s go. You just tell me where we’re going and I’m there, I’m with ya.

Warren: That’s it. As important as it is to have people like that, it’s equally as important to get rid of the poisonous ones. Because you’ll be dragging them with you like an anvil. Get rid of them. 

If you can’t fix them, you do have to get rid of them. It sucks, but it’s necessary. And then even like Mastroianni Bakery, I mean, that was a disaster. The company was going out of business in 30 days and I took over and we saved the company and we closed it, opened it, purchased it, but it was a miracle. And that was without really having the right people on the team. It was just brute force to make it work. It needed to be done.

Maureen: What did you have to do?

Warren: I don’t even know where to begin. Honestly, the place was just in such disarray. It was such a wonderful company, but it was just very poorly run. So I had to make hard decisions. I did terminate people. We added all new products. 

We went back to a better recipe, which meant it was more expensive, but we went on a business development grind, like go get new business, and we were successful in adding a million and a half dollars in annual revenue in the first year. And just doing everything, we rebranded the whole company from it. It didn’t even have a brand. So we rebranded it. 

Every single thing we had to touch, and it was brute force. Everything was at a breakneck pace, but it needed to be done and we didn’t have time. They were going out of business in 30 days. So and then eventually it got sold and it’s been sold again since then, but at least it stayed alive.

Maureen: I think the theme among those two scenarios that you just explained, as well as the work that you currently do with your clients now is the benefit of a new perspective. There is something to be said for having someone who’s kind of one step outside or new to, in your Horizon and Mastrononi examples, right? You’re sort of new to the scenario there, but you’re able to provide that new perspective to the challenge.

Warren: Change is absolutely inevitable and I’m going to come in and I’m going to look at things and, look, I’m 56 years old I’ve done things a few times in my life so you’re walking you pretty much can see the answers right away. Relatively quickly and now you’ve got to do it in a way that’s delicate enough that you look like you’re going to step on toes. You’re going to. I absolutely will piss some people off every so often.

It’s going to happen because you’re bringing in change and they don’t like it. And sometimes the change is because of them and it affects them and they don’t like that. But it has to be done. So you come in with a different perspective, different eyes and making the decisions that absolutely need to be made. And the great part is I’m kind of giving the owners of the company that courage saying, okay, it’s okay, you need to do this.

Maureen: Really they wouldn’t bring you in if they didn’t want to truly make a change anyway.

Warren: I did have a client who brought me in and I made a bunch of changes and they said, just do whatever you need to do, run this place, fix it. And I did, and there were two people on the team that really didn’t like what I was doing. Meanwhile, there were 30 that loved it. 

But the owner of the company was not really, wasn’t courageous enough to stick to it. Most of them are absolutely  starving for better accountability, better practices, and making smart decisions. They’re starving for it, and they just need somebody to say it’s okay.

Maureen: Speak a little bit about what happens when you have someone who’s dragging their feet that doesn’t want to come along. That scenario of you got two bad eggs and everybody else is on board. What do you do in that scenario?

Warren: I do, and I’ve had that conversation, and here’s the good news. In most cases, I will say this, in most cases, I’ll say seven out of ten times clients will have, they’ll drag their feet. They want change, but it’s hard, right? So they’ll drag their feet, but most of them eventually get there pretty quickly. The other ones, for the most part, get their confidence building and we get there. I’ve only had one, I think only one that fought me tooth and nail, okay? But what I tell every one of them is look.

Maureen: And was that a leader or was that a colleague at a company?

Warren: Yes, it was both. So you had people that were behind the scenes applauding the changes, begging, thank you, oh my God, did we need this? And then a couple of people that they didn’t like that change, you know, and I think that impacted the leader. But most of them are, when they do drag their feet a bit, and I will say this, I say, you brought me here for a reason.

Now, I’m not saying I have all of the answers, but I have a lot of them. And for your company, this is, these are the answers and you know it. You’re, you’re just, you’re just dragging your feet because you’re worried that if you make this decision, a bad thing will happen. And I have news for you, a bad thing will happen, but it’ll be over quickly. And then all the good stuff follows.

What you’re doing is you’re keeping this thing the way you do it and bad things happen every day and they will continue to happen every day. Right. Rip the bandaid off. Make the right decision. Deal with the pain of the first two months or whatever it takes. And then, and then they always look back and they say, I cannot believe where we’ve come.

Maureen: Man, you’re singing my song, because I’ve been in it, you know, I’ve been there where we delayed and delayed and delayed. We knew we needed to do something and the writing was on the wall and we kept talking about it again and again and again. And then because we wanted to avoid the short-term pain, right, we were trying, but we knew that we had to endure that in order to get to the long-term success that we needed. 

It was when we doubled down and did the thing that we needed to do and then looked back on it, like you said, it was exactly what you explained. Man, aren’t we glad we did that.

Warren: It’s unbelievable. It’s so unbelievable how short term pain can be such an insurmountable obstacle for so many people. Right. It’s like, you know, if I told you to stick your hand in that hole in the floor, there’s fifty thousand dollars in there. There’s also a mousetrap that’s going to snap on your hand. Do you know how many people would not stick their hand in there?

Like, I mean, that’s what it is. That short-term pain keeps a lot of people from making the right decision.

Maureen Ballatori (29:11.008)

Maureen: Speaking of short-term pain, you do a really cool program called WePeak. Can you talk about that?

Warren:  Yeah, that’s fun. I found early in my career, my consulting career, that leaders were stuck in the business. They were stressed out, and I’d be trying to have a meeting with them, and the doors open or the phones ring and they’re checking their phones, people are walking in and out, processing things and thinking. 

I hike a lot. And I know that when I’m hiking, my mind is never more open, never more clear. Now I don’t feel stress in my life to begin with, but you put me on a mountain and there’s just no stress.

So I thought about it and I said, I’m going to bring entrepreneurs together. So that’s what I do. I bring leaders and entrepreneurs up. We go hiking. It’s not a killer hike. I don’t want to kill them. It’s relatively easy hikes. 

Sometimes it’s a group from a corp, from a company that says, hey, bring these six people up and team build, teach them leadership, or it’s for entrepreneurs who never met each other. And I bring them together and we discuss leadership at the top of a mountain. It’s really cool stuff. And then afterwards there’s lunch and beer and all that good stuff, so.

Maureen: That’s awesome. I would love to end with one of your favorite moments from working with your clients over the years.

Warren: Man, favorite. That’s a really hard one. I mean, I worked with Death Wish Coffee early in my career. I was a consultant for them for two and a half years. And to see them grow from this small little ragtag team in Saratoga, New York to the national and even global success that they have had and working with that feisty group was really cool.

I mean, I look at Brooks Barbecue as another client of mine who was struggling to get certain things accomplished and he did it. 

I don’t know if I have a favorite because it’s each leader. I like the part when they’re this part where we’re ramping up and the company’s building and growing. I love that space. 

Then there’s always this tipping point. And it’s usually about then that I get fired. So they’re learning, growing, and then they have the epiphany and they figure it out. They figure out these things that they need to understand what true great leadership is. And I know that they’ve arrived and they’re not going to ever go backwards. 

Honestly, it’s hard to pick one because there have been many. I love that part.

It’s kind of like your kids, right? You watch your kids, you nurture your kids and you worry about them. And then one day they go off to college and you worry. And then at some point they’re going to do something or say something that just hits you and you go, they got it, they know, they know exactly. And I’ve done my job. And that’s kind of what I geek out about with them, because I do the leadership coaching and then I do.

I offer business consulting, so there are two different pieces. One is on the individual, the other one is really on the company.

Maureen: Which is unique. And that’s super important for those things to go hand in hand. I mean, I remember a couple of years ago being really stuck with, I felt like we were just on this hamster wheel, that we were running and running and what is it all for? And feels like we’re not making any money. And it was more than just my ability to lead the team, but it was about the work that we were doing and what we were charging and who we were bringing in and why, and you know.

Once we figured that out while also working on the leadership, that was really the secret sauce.

Warren: I have these seven principles that I believe in. I don’t coach out of a book. I coach from twenty some odd years of experience. Plus, oh, I worked with 50 companies who made it. So I learned a few things.

It’s not really like a book. It’s just all the knowledge and then I look at each person and each company who has individual needs and then you go through the encyclopedia in my head and you say, okay, for this person, this works, right? But there’s these seven principles that I believe in and that’s kind of what guides me in leading people, in coaching them. And it’s very cool when you see them understand those seven principles and make their decisions from that.

Maureen: And really internalize them, right? Not just understand what they mean, but they get it. Yeah, it clicks, like you said. That’s great. 

Warren, thank you for this. Really appreciate you sharing these stories. Yeah, especially with your, like I said, your experience in the industry, I think it is great to give that lens to some food and ag brands as well as the other founders out there. So thanks for your time.

Warren: Yeah, I’ve always loved the food business. It’s a grind and worth every single second.